Bob's new biography Paul Simon: The Life
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Los Angeles Times Interview With Robert Hilburn
Q&A: Former Times Critic Robert Hilburn on Writing About Paul Simon and The Struggle to Protect Artistry
By Randy Lewis 
Pop music writer Randy Lewis and pop music critic Robert Hilburn worked together at The Times for a quarter-century before Hilburn retired in 2006.
They sat down recently to talk about Hilburn's latest book, "Paul Simon — The Life," to be published by Simon & Schuster on Tuesday, just ahead of Simon's farewell tour concerts at the Hollywood Bowl on May 22, 23 and 28. This is Hilburn's third book since leaving The Times, and follows "Johnny Cash — The Life" (Little, Brown & Company, 2013). He is scheduled to do a book discussion and signing on May 17 at Book Soup in West Hollywood. You chose Johnny Cash as the subject of your first biography. Why Paul Simon? When I first went to the L.A. Times in 1970, the question I had was "Who should I write about?" When I began to interview people from the '60s, my first question was always "What was your favorite record?" They would always say Elvis Presley, Chuck Berry, Jerry Lee Lewis, Little Richard and maybe somebody else. Then when I started interviewing people from the '70s generation, and asked "What was your first record — who influenced you?" it was always the Beatles, the Stones, Bob Dylan, maybe somebody else — and Elvis Presley, Jerry Lee Lewis, Chuck Berry and Little Richard. So I thought, maybe that's what you do — you don't try to follow who's No. 1 every week, because that's often somebody maybe nobody cares about. So I'm going to try to think of the artists who, 10 years from now, the musicians are going to say, and the fans are going to say, "That's the person who was important." Still, a number of artists could fit that description. While I was writing the Cash book, I saw Simon at the Henry Fonda Theatre across from the Pantages [in Hollywood]. He was doing the "So Beautiful or So What" tour [in 2011]. I listened to that album and I thought, "My God, that's a great album." I love the song "Questions for the Angels." I was thinking, "Who else is active today who is writing music that can stand up to their earliest, best stuff?" Paul McCartney can't, Brian Wilson can't, Joni Mitchell can't. Even Dylan — I'm not sure. So after the Cash book, I tried to think "Who's the best songwriter I can think of that would make an interesting book, and who would tell me about the whole issue of artistry: how artistry comes about and how you have to protect it?" There's the issue of fame: Look at Elvis — he was destroyed by fame and womanizing and drugs and stuff. All these artists have these [hurdles]: marriage, divorce, changes in public taste, laziness, running out of talent. That's why I talked to people like Quincy Jones and Allen Toussaint, people who have worked with a lot of great talent, to see what characteristics they found [in Simon's work]. And again, I thought Paul is so articulate, this would be fabulous. He could tell me about the songs. You had Simon's cooperation — something he's never granted any other biographer — but you retained final approval. How did that sit with Simon? There was this huge thing early on — in the second month, third month, fourth month. He said, "If you're going to London, here are some people you ought to talk to," and he had a whole list of names. He had people he had his secretary send notes to saying I'm going to be calling them. But then he said, "Now Kathy Chitty [his girlfriend during his early years living in England] is off limits." And I thought, "Here we go." I waited maybe five minutes — this was in a series of emails. I thought, "What do I do? I can't let this go any farther." So I said, "Paul, I understand your concern and respect for Kathy and you don't want to invade her life. But nobody can be off limits. If I'm talking to a reporter, and they say, "How come you didn't talk to Kathy Chitty?" I've gotta be honest and say "Because she was off limits." That can't work, and it makes the whole book in question. I told him, "You don't have to help me find her. I'm not asking you to have your secretary contact her. But if I find her, and she wants to talk, you have to be OK with it." Twenty seconds go by. Then he says, "I understand." That really set the tone, and he never violated that. He often comes across as a sober, even somber guy, yet there is a lot of subtle humor in his songs. How did his sense of humor come out during your time with him? He and his son are big baseball fans and they have the All-Fish Team — all-time players with fish names [Mike Trout, Jim "Catfish" Hunter]. One day he said, "Of course, one of my favorite players on our team is Minnow Miñoso." I'm thinking, "No, Paul, it's not Minnow Miñoso, it's Minnie Miñoso" [of the Negro League and the Chicago White Sox]. I was shaving the next morning, and I realized, "That was a joke!" It's subtle like that — he doesn't set it up. I sent a note back to him and said, "That was a joke, wasn't it?" He sent the word "smile" back. But he does have a reputation for being aloof. He's had this reputation of being prickly, kind of a stuck-up guy. Even in the book, he says that when Edie [Brickell, the singer-songwriter he married in 1992] meets him, she says "I heard you weren't a very nice guy." He says, "No, I never meant to be a bad guy, I try to be nice." But he's so focused. That's the thing people don't understand: If Bob Dylan is sitting here, and you sat down with him and started talking, he wouldn't sit there and say, "Hey, how ya doin'!" He's got his own world. And Paul, if he's thinking about a song, he's not going to talk to you; Neil Young, he's not going to talk to you. Now Bruce [Springsteen], he would try to talk to you. [Laughs again] Bono would try to talk to you. But some of these guys are just so into their world. I remember I was doing an interview with Neil Young one time, driving around his big ranch up there [in Northern California], and he said, "I write a lot of songs in the car." I said, "What if you start writing a song now?" He said, "The interview would be over." That's what they are. That's their artistry. It's the focus, the obsession they have. Speaking of artistry, you spend as much or more time in the book examining his music as you do raking over the details of his private life. You don't gloss over his tempestuous relationship with Art Garfunkel, or his celebrity marriages to Carrie Fisher and more recently singer-songwriter Edie Brickell. I think of it as two train tracks going in [parallel]: You've got to tell the personal story, because that's what a biography is. But I think what's important — beyond the personal story, which is essential — you've got to build on that and tell why he's important. That's the art part. And it went deeper into the art part than you almost ever see in a biography because, again, I wanted to stress the significance of it — why he's remembered: those songs. When you think of all these songs he wrote … it's almost like I wanted it to be a case study in songwriting. But I didn't want to do it to the exclusion of his private life. So a casual fan will pick it up for the story. But for the person who wants to know about his significance and about the whole process of songwriting, that's the second train. I'm fascinated by both of them — but the second train is what gives the book its significance. Paul Simon has been the subject of controversy over the years — especially his run-in with the African National Congress over charges that he violated a cultural boycott of South Africa when he collaborated with musicians there for his "Graceland" album while apartheid was still in effect. "Graceland" is the significant thing, and his philosophy is he doesn't think anybody's got the right to tell [an artist] what you can do. His view was, "The ANC is a political party. I don't want the Democratic Party or the Republican Party [here] telling me what I can do. I don't want to ask their permission." That was in essence what he said. He was defending artistry — he even wrote a column in the New York Times about that. I don't try to make his case, but he would say, "That's what artists do: You fight battles; you're going to find record company presidents who don't like what you do and try to change you. You're going to find all kinds of [obstacles] and you've got to fight through that." Whether it's writing a song and not giving up, in his mind he was justified. He talked to Quincy Jones, he talked to Harry Belafonte. He wasn't unaware of the potential for problems. But the musicians wanted to work with him, and that was fine. So I think he's pleased with that chapter [of his life]. He thinks he did the right thing, and I think he did the right thing. One of my favorite sections is the one where he talks about writing "Darling Lorraine," which he considers one of his best songs. It's fascinating when the man who wrote it says he was surprised when the song about two people long into their relationship takes an unexpectedly dark plot turn. That's the big thing I learned: He writes in an unusual way. He doesn't pick a theme and write about it; he plays the guitar until something resonates in him. Then he tries to figure out what that feeling is and write about that, taking one line at a time, until he discovers what he's writing about. That's the discovery. He said when he was writing [the song] "Graceland" — that line [emerged] that just took the breath out of me: "She said losing love is like a window in your heart / Everybody sees you're blown apart." Those things come out. It's partially subconscious. That's why he left Simon & Garfunkel. He was probably burned out by the '70s. He knew he had done all he could with those three [fundamental rock-pop] chords, so he set out to educate himself about other kinds of music so he could make more music: gospel music, Latin music, Cajun music, South African music — something else that would inspire him. Did you reach a conclusion about how he has continued to make music that compares favorably to his early output? Fame never became more important, money never became more important, nothing became more important than his music. And for much of his life he suffered because of that; his relationships suffered. Gradually after "Graceland," he starts opening up his life, and with his marriage to Edie, now he's found a balance. |
Early Praise
There are two great storytellers colliding here. There’s no tougher a mind, no more tender a voice than Paul Simon, and there’s no better man than Robert Hilburn to decipher the hardwiring of this hyper-intellect. From the prologue I was sucked in, suckered into a sense that I too might discover the genetic code of some of the greatest songs of any century. By the epilogue, you realize the great songs can never be fully explained, but the great man on his way to find those songs surely can.
- Bono Paul Simon: The Life (4/4 Stars) is a straight-shooting tour de force... Like Simon, Hilburn's passion is music, and he makes clear that Simoon's is very much a life in and of music - a drive for aesthetic achievement, deeply serious in the studio and onstage. - Matt Damsker, USA Today In this detailed recounting of the life of Paul Simon, veteran biographer Robert Hilburn delivers a lively, eye-opening tale of the evolution of a doo-wop kid from Queens into an international musical phenomenon. Best of all, Hilburn’s telling runs at just the right pace as it brings us inside Simon’s personal life, as well as inside his music—often song by song—while illuminating Simon’s ingenious adaptations of music from all over the world. - Billy Collins, former poet laureate of the United States. An up-to-date and scrupulously researched biography. The timing is perfect. Mr. Simon recently announced his retirement from touring. He may not be done with music making, but this is a good occasion to reassess a career that started more than 60 years ago and has weathered enough changes in pop music to validate (his) boasts of rock permanence. - Ted Gioia, Wall Street Journal A tantalizing look into the mind and writing process of the man who is arguably the finest craftsman of the American Popular Song since the Gershwin brothers, this book will delight any Paul Simon fan or student of American Popular Culture. - Linda Ronstadt Hilburn (focuses) on the work as well as the man ,building a strong case for the composer...as a peer of Stephen Foster, Irving Berlin and Bob Dylan. Not since Caetano Veloso’s and Dylan’s autobiographies has there been such a detailed discussion of the layered poetic process that lies behind a great song. - Paul de Barros, Seattle Times Hilburn's brilliant and entertaining portrait of Simon will likely be the definitive biography. - Publisher's Weekly When it comes to writing songs, no one does it better than Paul Simon. Robert Hilburn's is a wise and winning account of our most nimble, nuanced, and numinous poet-musician. - Paul Muldoon, Pulitzer Prize for Poetry winner Absorbing . . . . Hilburn’s biography flows smoothly along on the river of his liquid prose. He excels at telling stories because he pays attention to details and facts, never overwhelming readers with the mundane, but always making sure that the stories rest on a solid foundation. . . . A sprawling, sparkling narrative of a songwriter who has shaped the canon of popular music with his inventive, sometimes playful, and discerning poetry.” - Henry Carrigan, No Depression Searching biography of the renowned songwriter, well known for his melancholic songs and competitive, perfectionist nature. The former longtime critic for the Los Angeles Times, Hilburn (Johnny Cash: The Life, 2013) ranks high in the firmament of writers on popular music, a fitting match for (the) subject. With train-wreck moments and tender interludes alike, a book that delivers a sharply detailed Kodachrome of a brilliant musician. - Kirkus Master-storyteller and interviewer Robert Hilburn knows how to draw the best from an artist. The intimacy of these interviews gives The Life the feel of Paul Simon’s best work, generous and witty and so rich in detail. It’ll send you back to the music with all these soul-stirring stories still in your heart. - Cameron Crowe With his eloquent and comprehensive new biography Paul Simon: The Life, the music journalist and author Robert Hilburn not only examines the personal life and professional career of the great American singer-songwriter, but also the artistic process at work. - The Globe and Mail Hilburn's... thorough, balanced and insistently chronological biography reminds us how titanic this musician is. - Sibbie O'Sullivan, Washington Post "The book (is) as engaging as a lively American tune" - People Hilburn was given unprecedented access to the star and he has delivered an extraordinary, thorough and revealing portrait of one of America’s greatest songwriters. - Daily Express, U.K. Based on extensive interviews with Simon and many others, Hilburn (Johnny Cash: The Life, 2013) has assembled a thorough and engrossing account of the Rock and Roll Hall of Famer. - Booklist A master storyteller... With Hilburn's deep understanding and feeling for Simon's music shining through the pages, this in an illuminating biography. - The Times (of London) |
